16:35 @DamienBasile i will just moderate things and put in my two cents when i want to like so
16:35 @DamienBasile without further ado your thought leaders
16:35 @davidlink <clap />
16:35 @ADELLECHARLES hahaha thought leaders eh?
16:35 @DamienBasile adelle why dont you give us some background on how you came to tonights topic…
16:35 @DamienBasile ethics in design
16:36 @ADELLECHARLES Well it started out with an email from someone (who I cannot name)..
16:36 @ADELLECHARLES about their company asking to show their own work from their portfolio
16:36 @ADELLECHARLES did everyone read the FYC post?
16:36 @Sharebrain yeah
16:36 @ahmednaguib yup!
16:36 @lagaba yeah
16:36 @chrisong yup
16:36 @Meroko yes, I did!
16:36 behoff no please share the link adelle
16:36 @ADELLECHARLES http://www.fuelyourcreativity.com/ethical-or-unethical/
16:37 GRAHAMSMITH That was my homework for everyone
16:37 @ahmednaguib yup :P!
16:37 @ADELLECHARLES darn you behoff
16:37 @ADELLECHARLES ;)
16:37 @ADELLECHARLES lots of people rang in on the subject
16:37 @ADELLECHARLES but we wanted to take it a step further (@damienbasile) wanted to – to chat about it
16:37 @ADELLECHARLES Roundtable Style
16:39 GRAHAMSMITH I have to say though, in hindsight, what did people actually come away with from reading that post?
16:39 @ADELLECHARLES wondering what people thought about the ethics in this post
16:39 @ADELLECHARLES did anyone benefit? or just the person who emailed me ;)
16:39 GRAHAMSMITH Seems that alot can be said, talked about, mused over…
16:40 GRAHAMSMITH but actually there was a very simple straightforward answer… at least to me
16:40 @chadengle Well I don’t see how that seems fair to me
16:40 @davidlink Simple question, sure. But a complex answer, in my opinion.
16:40 GRAHAMSMITH Seems that we can get caught up in grey issues when maybe there shouldn’t be
16:40 @chadengle I agree with @andysowards
16:40 @Sharebrain ok …maybe i am alone with this opinion but i have to say that it was ok that the company asked ….
16:40 @nebrow i thought it was a simple answer
16:40 @livefire I feel like it isn’t unheard of for a company to put the spotlight on some of its star designers.
16:40 @DamienBasile talk more about how its complicated @davidlink
16:40 @ADELLECHARLES I thought it was a simple answer as well -
16:41 @Meroko I think it depends on how they present the work to the client
16:41 @nebrow if it wasnt designed for or by the company they cant show it in their portfolio
16:41 @Meroko although I didn’t like being asked (in my case)
16:41 @lagaba The company can ask but its not right to ask or to think about it
16:41 @DamienBasile @nebrow but if they put a disclaimer in?
16:41 @dreamleaf but the talent of any agency is based on the designers working there
16:41 behoff i personally feel this is taking advantage of the designer
16:41 @nebrow @damienBasile – its still dishonest
16:41 @DevLano i think of designers as tattoo artist, if a GREAT artist is in my shop, I’m showing off his work to get customers
16:41 @DamienBasile @behoff what if the designer agrees?
16:41 @ADELLECHARLES I think it is taking advantage as well
16:41 @Meroko I felt backed into a corner, because when I was asked, it was like now, people getting laid off, etc.
16:41 @davidlink I think it’s complicated because the question is ethical. If the designer is employed, I believe it’d be ok for a company to ask if he/she would be willing to display past work. The complex part…
16:42 @DamienBasile @nebrow why is it dishonest?
16:42 @lagaba I’m agree with @behoff
16:42 @nebrow the work of a design studio is more than just the work of a star designer
16:42 @ahmednaguib Its ethical because you work for the company…you get paid from your boss…and if he/she uses your portfolio to get work..that means you get the money
16:42 @nebrow its a collaboration
16:42 @DamienBasile a designer IS the company.
16:42 @chadengle @DevLano yes but if you make it that way and you are showcasing your designer what makes your designer not go freelance?
16:42 @DamienBasile @chadengle brings up a good point
16:42 @Sharebrain @nebrow: it may sound hard: but who pays the bills ? :) if the guy would work as a freelancer for this xompany than i think it wouldn?t be ok to ask … but he works fulltime …
16:42 @dreamleaf maybe the grey area comes when designers are working full time in an agency and still taking freelance
16:43 @lagaba The designer coul be the company but the company does’nt say that when they present the designer’s portfolio
16:43 behoff @DamienBasile: if the designer agrees, that’s another story, but I’m not quite sure why one would agree
16:43 @chadengle @dreamleaf I dont think its that
16:43 @ADELLECHARLES Good point @dreamleaf
16:43 @DevLano @chadengle there is nothing really
16:43 @davidlink …the complex part is A) did the work come another agency? B) Will the designer be given full credit? C) Will the agency remove the work if/when the designer leaves?
16:43 @DevLano if their gonna walk, their gonna walk, no stopping them
16:43 @nebrow if it was made for the company on company time then it goes in the portfolio…if its someones personal work that they own the rights to then its off limits
16:43 @chadengle I think the grey area becomes when a designer is asked to showcase the work outside of the current agency
16:43 @DamienBasile @behoff well if a company isnt doing too well and cant produce enough work at the moment it may artificially help boost them to bring in more clients for the moment
16:43 @emilwisch **newbie** If the designer is in a different creative environment when working on personal projects, I’d assume it’s possible to have an effect on the work, thus, not necessarily being consistent with the work said designer produces at the agency.
16:44 @Sharebrain and here in germany (and i think even somewhere else) its this way: if you work for a company you need their permission if you want to work on other projects. and for creative people this can be very hard.
16:44 @DamienBasile what would you do if you were asked to show your work outside of the agency?
16:44 @chadengle Basically it is the same idea that @nebrow is getting at
16:45 @chadengle I don’t think that I should have to showcase my work for my agency.
16:45 @chadengle I have people that are out there getting leads for our agency and doing the “marketing”
16:45 behoff @Sharebrain i was actually just typing the same thing… a buddy of mine lost his job in an agency as a designer b/c they found out his also runs a freelance business
16:45 @nebrow i agree with @chadengle what you do on your own time is yours
16:45 @chadengle I am a designer and you can showcase me brag whatever you want
16:46 @Meroko In my case, they wanted my work from a previous agency
16:46 @livefire This is all based on the line between corporate work and personal work. If we’re talking about a showcase of a designer in a company there isn’t much of a grey area…
16:46 @livefire the work of that designer is credited whether it was made on company time or not. If we’re talking about taking personal work and rebranding it for use in a company portfolio then it’s morally wrong.
16:46 @ADELLECHARLES @meroko I don’t believe thats is ok either
16:46 @Meroko the company I worked for (not there now), didn’t have annual report experience, and was pitching to a client for their annual report
16:46 @Sharebrain of course you don?t “have to” show your portfolio … but you don?t even “have to ” work for that company … reality is : there are allways 100 people who want your job too … i hate to say it but thats the way it is
16:46 @Meroko the company I worked for before them, I designed 7 annuals
16:46 @davidlink Yes, work from a previous agency should be off-limits.
16:47 @Meroko so they were selling it as “we have designers that have experience”
16:47 @nebrow how is work for a different agency any different thatn your freelance work?
16:47 @nebrow its work for other entities
16:47 @chadengle I would think that you would come up with a “mock-up” for that client
16:47 @DamienBasile so, where is the line?
16:47 @chadengle thats usually how you “pitch” someone on a new idea.
16:47 @livefire @chadengle agreed
16:47 @davidlink Yes, but it doesn’t belong to you. There are a lot of questions about OWNERSHIP here
16:47 @DamienBasile if there are 100s of people waiting for your job where do you draw the line?
16:47 @chadengle @davidlink the ownership is the agency’s. done. over. end.
16:48 @Meroko my old company just wanted to show that we knew how to do annual reports
16:48 @nebrow @damien i think if you have to question where the line is with an employer they arent a good employer
16:50 @ADELLECHARLES Here is a question – Would you feel you would need to be compensated extra, would that change the way you thought about it?
16:51 @Meroko no, extra compensation would not change the way I felt about it
16:51 @nebrow @adelle i would agree if i was compensated for some of the hours spent, and if i was given credit, but still most likely would do it. its like selling the rights to your work
16:51 @ADELLECHARLES Exactly @nebrow
16:51 @ADELLECHARLES I tend to agree -
16:52 @Meroko I think they should pitch the work on their own merits
16:52 @lagaba I agree with @nebrow
16:52 @chadengle I think the issue with you showing your own work out side of said agency is that later on down the road your work would be branded with said agency
16:52 GRAHAMSMITH I think im with @meroko, the company need to show work of their own doing surely?
16:52 @chadengle Just like I show a poster on my folio site for a year
16:53 @chadengle and then adelle has it on hers. If you run across it your gonna think she stole me work
16:53 @nebrow @chadengle agreed
16:53 GRAHAMSMITH Would you take a car to a body repair shop after seeing an example from another shop down the road?
16:53 @chadengle Its not hard to copy a design
16:53 @nebrow even if its properly credited
16:53 @chadengle I mean come on we can photoshop the istock logo out of a picture if we try hard enough
16:53 @davidlink @chadengle, Right. That is why the line is drawn at work completed at other agencies.
16:53 @Meroko In my scenario, they could have just shown concepts and then talked about the designer’s experience with annual reports, without actually SHOWING them
16:54 @chadengle The issue is that you will be branded under the agency. Not yourself
16:54 @ADELLECHARLES would you do it if that meant saving your job?
16:54 @chadengle There for locking yourself into that spot area and making it harder to advance yourself go to a better job etc.
16:54 @davidlink @adelle – would you do it if it meant saving the company?
16:55 @ADELLECHARLES No
16:55 @chadengle @meroko I understand but what I would do is design a mock-up geard for that client
16:55 @Meroko @chadengle, I agree
16:55 @nebrow @davidlink thats a good point – saving the company
16:55 @chadengle showing a couple pages with bogus numbers etc.
16:55 @lagaba I wont do it because is about the company and not me
16:55 @ADELLECHARLES Unfortunatly in my situation – MY company Could care less – SO it depends on the situation I believe
16:56 @davidlink @adelle – Totally.
16:56 GRAHAMSMITH are we not a little off topic here? its about representing a company that you are not employed by, who wish to display your work to gain their own clients? no?
16:56 @davidlink Oh
16:56 @davidlink I thought it was for a company who employed you
16:56 @dreamleaf as designers we think of this in terms “of the designer”, from the perspective of the company – they probably want to think that the designer is dedicated to the company not personal gain…
16:56 @lagaba You can save a company but How would you be benefied?
16:56 suedecrush Hi! Late to the party. Why not have the employee do spec work for the potential client instead of showing existing solo work?
16:57 @ADELLECHARLES Thats a great question @suedecrush
16:57 @DamienBasile case in point, when i’m at my agency i work on something by myself but as a back and forth between the other principles
16:57 @chadengle @suedecrush thats what we do. Graham Please restate the question
16:57 @DamienBasile get their gauge, feedback.. its collaborative
16:58 @DamienBasile your personal stuff is done by yourself.. it lacks that collaborative nature.. not REALLY indicative of the companys work exactly
16:58 @DamienBasile but it does give SOME sort of sense to what a client MAY get
16:58 suedecrush To clarify, the designer in question is employed by the company wishing to show their work, correct?
16:58 @davidlink If business isn’t looking good, spec work may be out of the question. $$
16:59 @chadengle Graham, Adelle we are off base set us up with a scenario, a what if
16:59 @RyanDownie There is copyright issues with this? No matter how you look at it. The agency I work for is letting me use work that I have done for them in my porfolio as long as I state it was done on on behalf of said client.
16:59 suedecrush I understand where the employer is coming from if they feel that this employee is a star designer and their asthetic matches that of the potential client
17:00 GRAHAMSMITH the company will have sales reps, cordinators, and as damien says, a lack of collaboration which may mean the personal style is way off mark for the company.
17:00 @DamienBasile so do you as the designer put in a disclaimer that the work done was while at your company for a client?
17:01 @livefire That just seems unprofessional
17:01 @DamienBasile and do you as the company put a disclaimer in that its the work of a particular designer that may work on a future project for the client?
17:01 GRAHAMSMITH so the client then approaches you direct because they really like your own work and for sure< will be cheaper
17:01 @DamienBasile unprofessional aside… is it ethical?
17:01 @DamienBasile Graham brings up an EXCELLENT point
17:02 GRAHAMSMITH that scenario will happen
17:02 @emilwisch But, if the client misses the ‘company’ fine print, wouldn’t this be where the line starts to get fuzzy?
17:02 @DamienBasile does this cross-referencing lend itself to poaching? where is the line?
17:02 @davidlink @Graham – Indeed it will. Poor judgement on the company’s part at that point then, yes?
17:02 GRAHAMSMITH i would use it for personal reasons if you really want to get cynical and double crossing
17:02 GRAHAMSMITH who says the designer should look after themselves at the expense of the company?
17:03 @DevLano as a designer are you expecting the agency to promote you?
17:03 @DamienBasile AND vice versa
17:03 GRAHAMSMITH if the company wants to use your work to get clients but the offshoot is those clients then approach you… what do you do?
17:03 @davidlink This is all highly situational. It’s nearly impossible to answer these questions. So many “ifs”
17:03 @chadengle @grahamsmith conflict of interest
17:04 GRAHAMSMITH @davidlink: YUP. SHORTSIGHTEDNESS
17:04 @lagaba It is a conflictive question
17:04 @DevLano depends on the senario most times
17:04 GRAHAMSMITH but its all ethicial and probable
17:04 @lagaba but if the company promote my work is tha company’s fault right?
17:04 @DevLano some contracts say, your exclusive to us and cant do freelance
17:04 GRAHAMSMITH ethics can be subjective as well as design
17:04 @DevLano some dont
17:05 suedecrush This is starting to seem like there couldn’t possibly be any good to come of this. If the employee refuses, they put themselves in a really bad situation, really quick. If they say yes, might this become a common practice of the employer?
17:05 GRAHAMSMITH @DevLano: BUT THEN IF THEY WANT TO USE YOUR OWN WORK, THEN WHAT
17:05 @Meroko @suedecrush…agreed
17:05 GRAHAMSMITH @Meroko: @suedecrush; ITS BAD NEWS AL ROUND FROM WHERE I AM SITTING :)
17:05 @dreamleaf @GRAHAMSMITH – make it personal, this situation happens to you, approach from prospective new client.. do you take the work or refer them to the company and tell them to request you as designer..?
17:06 Sunfall Designs.com lol
17:06 @DevLano I dont want to say they have the ‘right’ but I think of it as a positive to show your previous work
17:06 @chadengle Ok can I set us up with a question?
17:06 @ADELLECHARLES yes please Chad
17:06 GRAHAMSMITH @dreamleaf: DEPENDS HOW HAPPY I AM AT THE COMPANY, HOW VALUED I AM.
17:06 @chadengle I think there would be a couple different scenarios from the ground level
17:06 GRAHAMSMITH @dreamleaf: if they have given me cause to be worried about job security then i woul dhave to look after myself
17:07 @Sharebrain @graham: true … its about achieving a win-win situation
17:07 @chadengle 1. Small agency or firm 2. Big agency or firm 3. upstart design firm
17:07 Sunfall Designs.com That’s exactly the reason why I went freelance web design & internet marketing. Large corporations are only out to save money. End of story.
17:07 suedecrush @grahamsmith Agreed! If you feel valued and are an integral part of the team and have great communication with your boss/team, that changes everything.
17:08 @Meroko @chadengle…ethically, does it make a difference the size of the firm?
17:08 @chadengle trying to get to that point :)
17:08 @Meroko oh…i’ll be sitting in the corner quiet-like now ;)
17:08 @chadengle heres my view of the situation
17:08 GRAHAMSMITH @Meroko: @chadengle: I THINK TO A DEGREE IT DOES
17:08 @chadengle I think that for example you work in a 5 person agency
17:09 @chadengle there is an owner/creative director
17:09 @chadengle 2 graphic designers
17:09 @chadengle a web developer and betty the do everything person
17:09 GRAHAMSMITH @chadengle: I think i know where you are going :)
17:09 @chadengle Now if they ask you
17:09 @chadengle to showcase your work in this scenario
17:09 @chadengle I think its more of a personal firm and yes thats how they would market themselves
17:10 @chadengle As we have this designer
17:10 @chadengle Now for example
17:10 @chadengle if you have a 65 person company
17:10 @Sharebrain uhm…btw i think its wrong to speak about “ethical” or “un-ethical” … because the company asked. they ASKED! :) and that alone is ethical … i know some companies who just would have used the work without asking …
17:10 @chadengle with marketers researchers Account executives media buyers etc. I don’t think it would be ethical
17:10 @chadengle Its more of a big corporate machine
17:10 GRAHAMSMITH @chadengle: Small, fun company, you are more likely to help out. As long as you can tell when someone may be taking you for a ‘ride’
17:11 @DamienBasile @sharebrain good point
17:11 @chadengle You don’t see Landor highlight there top designer
17:11 @DamienBasile it CAN be a sliding scale grey zone
17:11 Sunfall Designs.com Unless they’re out to save a penny
17:11 @chadengle If its an upstart/new company you have to highlight yourself
17:11 @lagaba @Sharebrain yeah but some companies asked and then they took advantage when they present the work
17:11 GRAHAMSMITH @sharebrain> so what would you do if you found out they had used your work without your persmission?
17:11 suedecrush Might the smaller company claim they don’t know any better? They know. Might as well borrow a cookie recipe… then you don’t need that person anymore.
17:12 @chadengle there is no “agency” work only where you came from. So i think the ethical question is more what scenario would it be acceptable in
17:12 Sunfall Designs.com That is why you copyright everything.
17:12 @DamienBasile What recourse do you have as a small designer?
17:12 @davidlink @chadengle – Re: Upstart – Yes. You HAVE to highlight yourself. And without a large body of “company” work… where do you start from?
17:13 @davidlink You have to start with the talent you have on board. Showcasing their abilities; Past and Present
17:13 @chadengle Agreed
17:13 @chadengle thats why in a bigger agency i do not see it being as a big deal
17:13 @chadengle wrong
17:13 @chadengle sorry
17:13 @davidlink haha
17:13 @chadengle I see it being a big deal
17:13 Sunfall Designs.com Isn’t that what you would have in your resume anyway? They could just go to HR and pull out your resume for your past work..
17:13 Sunfall Designs.com why*
17:13 @chadengle in a big agency they can market the big agency aspect
17:13 suedecrush THAT would be unethical! lol
17:14 Sunfall Designs.com haha
17:14 @chadengle we have 10 designers quick turn around etc etc
17:14 Sunfall Designs.com true
17:14 @davidlink If you’re at a company who’s been around for 10 years, they have their own work they can use to rope in companies. Regardless of what new improvements you (the employed designer) may bring.
17:14 @Sharebrain thats really sucks …. but this is not “happy land” we are living in … mostly its about business and money …
17:14 @davidlink clients* (not companies)
17:14 @chadengle @davidlink I agree
17:14 Sunfall Designs.com I’m so glad I work for myself now.. Because I don’t have to deal with these issues anymore lol
17:14 @Meroko It depends…what if “big company” had never done a particular type of project, say, a flash demo
17:15 @chadengle Another hypothetical lets compare it to sports
17:15 GRAHAMSMITH We are we all going with this?
17:15 @Sharebrain and when you have an offer to work for a company …. the only freedom you have is to say “no thanks”
17:15 @chadengle That it depends on the situation @grahamsmith
17:15 suedecrush The college I went to did this. They used work done by a student before they attended the college to promote their design program. I think that was misleading and kinda slimey.
17:15 @chadengle at a ground level i do not think it is ethical
17:15 GRAHAMSMITH Who are the winners?
17:15 Sunfall Designs.com But doesn’t it also promote your skill, though?
17:15 @chadengle but in some cases I could see just cause
17:16 GRAHAMSMITH Who are the losers?
17:16 @chadengle Anyone can gain or lose from it
17:16 @DevLano thats what i was getting at
17:16 @DevLano if you DONT show your old work
17:16 @DevLano where does that get you
17:16 Sunfall Designs.com aw I see
17:16 @DevLano what good will come of it
17:16 Sunfall Designs.com >.< headache
17:16 @chadengle @devlano what if you have bad old work
17:16 GRAHAMSMITH can someone answer one or both of the questions please :)
17:17 @davidlink @graham, I will
17:17 @DevLano well being forced to show bad work, thats a diff topic :-p
17:17 @ADELLECHARLES I think we could probably go around and around about the generic topic – because these are all scenarios.
17:17 Sunfall Designs.com I agree with Adelle. This is a topic that has many point of views, but no answers.
17:18 @lagaba So lets answer
17:18 @davidlink If you show your work, the winners are: The company (if they get the client), the client (because you’ll do great work), and hopefully you. (if the company rewards you for it)
17:18 Sunfall Designs.com Unethical!! **Hides**
17:18 @lagaba It’s unethical
17:18 Sunfall Designs.com Oui
17:19 @davidlink The losers are: You (if the company does not reward you/give you credit), the company (if your old work is bad), the client (if the old work is misrepresentative of the company’s work – IE: if your old work came from other agencies)
17:19 suedecrush What does your gut say to you about this? Whatever that is, that’s what is right for each individual person. We’re all in the same boat, some of us just have more bills. :P
17:19 @lagaba You can be “rewarded” but its unethical.. ypu always lose
17:19 @davidlink That’s just talking about what happens if you DO show your work. NOT showing it is a whole new set of winners/losers
17:19 @davidlink @lagaba – that depends…
17:19 @DevLano I always liked the tattoo shop mentality, if you are working at the shop, then YOUR entrie portfolio is on the desk to any cleint to see, when you leave it all goes with you, that talent is no longer with that firm
17:19 Sunfall Designs.com If you don’t get money from it, You Lose.
17:20 GRAHAMSMITH @davidlink: I THINK THATS AS CLOSE AS WE WILL GET MATE
17:20 @davidlink Do you need to pay medical bills? Then maybe the reward is well deserved.
17:20 Sunfall Designs.com haha
17:20 @davidlink welcomed*
17:20 GRAHAMSMITH lets not micro anaylise this
17:20 @davidlink Agreed
17:20 @ADELLECHARLES agreed
17:20 @Sharebrain @david: great answer
17:20 @davidlink thanks :)
17:20 GRAHAMSMITH i think a generalisation is in order :)
17:20 @lagaba @davidlink I know it depends but is always like that
17:21 @davidlink @lagaba – precisely. It’s not easy to say if this is truly an ethics question. It’s situational to the designer AND the company they’re working for.
17:22 GRAHAMSMITH @davidlink: Yup. And nots let forget common sense applied to each unique situation. There isn’t a one size fits all
17:22 GRAHAMSMITH stating the obvious i know
17:22 @lagaba @davidlink yes I think I’m speaking of wht I saw or live
17:22 @Sharebrain and i think the answer changes with time and the position you are in :)
17:22 @lagaba @Sharebrain agree
17:22 GRAHAMSMITH @Sharebrain: Yup. In that sense it can be subjective like design… :)
17:22 @davidlink So, we’re all starting to agree that this question is unanswerable? (unless given specific circumstances)
17:22 @DevLano you can only really take a personal stands on it
17:23 @Sharebrain i can give you another eyample i was personally involved if you want to hear …
17:23 @lagaba yep
17:23 @livefire I think we can say on thing for sure: the work you do for a previous company should not be used for any company you work for after that.
17:23 GRAHAMSMITH @davidlink: I get that impression you know…
17:23 @davidlink @livefire – I agree totally
17:23 Sunfall Designs.com I agree.
17:23 @davidlink THAT is unethical
17:23 @lagaba @livefire – I agree
17:24 GRAHAMSMITH LIke we would do what someone told us to do anyway, the truth is, it depends on a myriad of circumstances, that only WE/US are fit to deal with
17:24 @davidlink Yes siree
17:24 @DevLano well said
17:24 @livefire I think we can also agree that any work you do for any company can be used for personal purposes, ie portfolio pieces
17:24 GRAHAMSMITH @livefire: :)
17:25 @lagaba @livefire yeah is your work
17:25 @dreamleaf one of my first arguments if faced with the choice would be to approach the original client – I only share work from those that have given approval
17:25 @livefire On the other hand, what you do with your own work is up to you.
17:26 @ADELLECHARLES I think this could go on for hours -
17:26 @chadengle it has
17:26 @ADELLECHARLES as there is no answer exactly
17:26 suedecrush days… weeks… months… years :P
17:27 @DevLano if I ONLY worked for firms, then I effectively would not have a portfolio.. right?
17:27 @davidlink No
17:27 @DevLano only the firms have the portfolio
17:27 @Sharebrain true ….
17:27 @DevLano so firms couldn’t use other firms work
17:27 @davidlink You have YOUR work from the firm. But only to represent your strengths as a designer.
17:27 Sunfall Designs.com It’s funny to see portfolios that are only templates.
17:28 @DevLano what youve described is a point where you as the desinger have to show your work
17:28 Sunfall Designs.com I swear I’ve seen the same business girl on like 5 different sites.
17:28 @davidlink @sunfall – thank you, iStockPhoto :)
17:28 @DevLano thats why owning rights is so important ^^
17:28 @ADELLECHARLES Thanks guys for a great convo ;) Although it was quite hard to focus on what everyone was saying. IM JUST SAYIN ;)
http://tr.im/smforsc
Wow! That was much was much easier to follow edited than as live chat.
I guess I’m pretty glad it’s worked out well that I’ve confined myself to freelance book design and layout. My clients–publishers, book packagers and production houses, and self-publishing authors–understand that I am, essentially, a mercenary, going from job o job and client to client.
I understand that they purchase my work for all time–that is, a best-seller is going to be reprinted without repaying me. And if I do a cover, it may show up in their catalog without a credit to me. They will show that cove online, perhaps for a very long time.
By the same token, I will show that work in design samples whenever I want, usually as part of a collection of PDFs sent to prospective clients, but–possibly–on my website. I don’t go and name the publisher or packager for whom I did the work; that’s obviously part of the whole book anyway, right on the copyright page (along with a credit line for me, if the client is one that does that sort of thing; not all do).
I can’t imagine a book publisher using my work for anything but the purpose of making the book and to sell the book. And, yes, I guess the catalog. But that’s to make sales. So it’s clear to me this is vastly different from working for ad agencies, either as an employee or contractor.
Which brings me to my first thought, that I’m glad I work for clients in the design and production of books. Seems less complicated, more straightforward: Do the work, get paid, get more work.
Stephen Tiano’s last blog post..The Subtle Art of Pairing Serif and Sans Serif Typefaces, Part II